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Armhole Curve Anomaly - Manual Grading

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  • US Designer Support

    Hi There! It is possible that the Curve Points are not grading with everything. You can the use the Tools "Edit Grading (each)" or "Edit Curve Grading (each)" These tool allow you to adjust a Segment Point or Curve Point on a single size

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  • jne4sl

    The mid armhole grade should be level: 0 vertical, 5/8" horizontal. Looks like the other points follow the scheme, so you're interpreting the chart correctly. It is a little difficult, since the book is describing moving a pattern, and the moves are cumulative. For computer grading you just need to enter the net move at each point, so it would be better to have a chart of those values.

    Grading rules are still just a jumping off point, expect to finesse things from there. Part of the issue is just having a segment point in a curve. You could try a graded curve point there instead, at least the shape would be smooth. I understand why it's there, it controls the across front measure and the notch position, but it's likely that table value won't maintain a smooth curve and you'll want to correct in some way.

    ETA: I missed your last sentence after the images. Yes, the movements are cumulative. So point 4 should move up 1/4 out 1/8, then out 1/2, then down 1/4 for a total of out 5/8 no vertical movement.

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  • jne4sl

    This is a shirt front from the modular library, graded according to the Handford chart.

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  • c87e2e6be06064cd0954

    Hey US Designer Support, jne4sl

    Thank you for your replies! 

    Let me start by attempting to change the segment point to a graded curve point and report back. That looks like what you've done in your screenshot jne4sl, thanks for the visual explanation! 

    I'll put the result in the replies tomorrow. 

    Thanks, Louis

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  • jne4sl

    Initially there was no intermediate point in the armhole, so I just graded the other segment points. Then I added a point and forced the grade. That particular pattern has too many curve points (the fewer the better when grading). It worked, but if there's a kink, the next option is adjust the grade on some of the curve points. It's a little harder than it should be to get them to interpolate between the assigned values of segment points (e.g. the hem is slightly off).

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  • jne4sl

    One more image. If you're following Handford as closely as possible, entire sections of curve should be preserved, meaning all the curve points have the same grade as the previous marked point. The next step is to smooth those transitions as needed. With computer grading, there's a choice, either force the curve points like Handford's sliding method and set all the curve points in lock-step, or let them interpolate between the two adjacent points. Ideally letting them interpolate means the transitions smooth automatically, but it's also possible to get too much curve distortion (like a shirt tale curve that drifts from the side seam). On top of that, in CLO, it's possible for the curve points to be assigned a grade that doesn't change with a subsequent segment point change (something to watch out for).

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  • c87e2e6be06064cd0954

    Thank you jne4sl. 

    I have been playing with the grading today, still moving the points mostly and then only changing the curve grading where needed (example below on a sleeve). The two curve points just above the notch (toward the cap) I've graded as per the book which seems to have worked. 

    If I follow you correctly, you're saying that grading the points doesn't guarantee that the curve points in the yellow boxes have the exact grading parameters set out by Handford, even if they look right to the eye. Would that mean that I would need to apply the grading to each point on the curve to follow Handford correctly? 

    On a slightly different note, have you come across the distorting at the cap between sizes?

    Thanks for the insight.

    Louis

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  • jne4sl

    Your approach is good, the important thing is watching the shapes and confirming the result you need. To take Handford literally, the curve points in each box would be graded exactly the same as the adjacent segment point. So for example the curve of the hem shouldn't change at all, instead all the stretching happens in the straightaway near the center front. So if you want to force that in CLO, switch to curve grading, marquee around all the points of the hem, and re-enter the grading value for point 7. Because what he is doing is physically moving a pattern and tracing around sections in each position. You don't necessarily need to force the curve points to match. If you don't, CLO will instead allow the curve points to vary between the two adjacent points, and it may be a smoother transition. Sometimes this interpolation goes haywire, I'm not certain why, but going back in and changing the grade is one time it tends to happen. 

    When comparing the caps, you might restack them to align at the hem or bicep level. Then you should be able to tell better how the curves compare. Use the grading tool, right click a point and choose stack, e.g. the point at the center of the sleeve hem. 

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  • c87e2e6be06064cd0954

    That's really clear, thank you. With my application, I will be handing these patterns to manufacturers, and they will make their own adjustments in the production process, so for now, I will allow the CLO interpolation if it looks good to the eye (plus the collection is oversized, so tiny pattern discrepancies between curve grades won't affect fit) and then practice the method with the marquee. 

    The stack tip worked to visualise the issue, the curve in general is fine but the distortion seems to be happening because there needs to be an area either side of the centre point in the cap that moves with that grade (image below). 

    Adding Curve points either side of the segment point and ensuring they are placed equidistant on the front and back curve seems to have remedied. 

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  • jne4sl

    Looks good. When computer grading there's no need to force it to match a manual method. Results should all be the same when done correctly. Cleaning up curve points and placing them only where needed is part of the process.

    I was going to point out on your initial post that part of the armhole issue is that your design is less fitted. The armhole is closer to a line, so you'd expect the mid-armhole might grade more like the underarm point than the shoulder point (ie leaving as a curve point is fine). Also with oversized fits, sometimes the grading is dialed back. A 4" grade is necessary to maintain a fitted shirt, but when it's already boxy the look can be preserved across sizes without as much increase. That's a style choice more than a rule, but another impact of grading.

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