Creating an Absolute Beginners and Intermediate Online Course - Your feedback requested

21 followers Follow
5
Avatar

Hello Community. I have been learning a lot about 3D modeling using online training, either paid on Udemy or free tutorials on YouTube.

So, I decided we need an Absolute Beginners CLO3D course and later on an Intermediate one to help our newcomers get up to speed with this great software.

My plan is to have free portions of the course but have the complete series as a paid course in Udemy or other platforms later. I think we can all benefit.

 

How can you contribute you ask yourself?

I'd like to gather feedback from you as to:

  1. What are the topics a beginner would like to see.
  2. What are the topics suitable for an Intermediate course.
  3. What kind of garments or accessories one should use as examples.
  4. What are the pre-requisites for the Beginners and Intermediate courses.
  5. Any suggestions to make this a great resource.

What's in it for you, you ask again?

Besides helping make this community bigger and supporting our developers to make a better software, I plan to give out some coupons to people that join the community in order to promote the training and benefit all of us here.

Unfortunately this is a "slow" community in terms of debates, feedback discussions, etc. I believe it could be because of the sheer number of users, the industry we're in or I'm not sure. I hope I can get dozens of posts with hundreds of ideas from you.

I'm excited about this new project and your support!

If you'd like to be notified of the progress you can follow me on 

https://instagram.com/fora_style

P

45 comments

2
Comment actions Permalink
m0ntr0n

"Unfortunately this is a "slow" community in terms of debates, feedback discussions, etc. I believe it could be .. the industry we're [in]" -- hahah, I just wanted to mention that i think this actually is a big part of it. For whatever reason, fashion folks are slow on the tech uptake. I remember speaking to a woman who taught a course on coding to fashion design students at Parsons and she recalled how her biggest obstacle was getting her students past their own belief that they were just not capable of learning STEM skills.

I'm still quite new to Clo, but I will try to respond to a few of the questions in your survey:

1(/3). I'd love a step-by-step tutorial on making a garment. Currently the most useful Clo video I've found on youtube is a time lapse called "Making The Yellow Dress". It's great because It's a relatively basic garment but not so basic as to be boring; you learn basic pattern/sewing functions, gathered seams, zippers, rendering. If you made something like this, but slower & with a clear, high quality voice over would be amazing. 

2. I'm probably less qualified to answer this one because I'm not really at "intermediate" level but I wish there were more videos on using trims, bindings, more advanced fabric property editing, and maybe garments like handbags etc. The manual is pretty dry and anemic on these topics. I would also like more info on making materials in other software (such as trims & motions) that can then be imported into Clo. 

5. There's a tutorial on Youtube for Blender 3D by a youtuber named "Blender Guru" that's a great example of what a a really, really successful 3D software tutorial for absolute beginners looks like. He starts from the beginning, breaks his information into digestible lengths, and concludes most videos with a "fun" bonus tip or trick, which keeps users engaged during the slog through dryer material. He also offers downloadable PDF files with keyboard shortcuts. Something you might like to reference. 

Good luck & thanks for doing this! : )

-Mon

2
Comment actions Permalink

Thanks so much Mon. I definitely agree with you about the slow take up. Fortunately we are a fair amount of people that have embraced technology for our daily chores as we understood is much more efficient after going over the hump of the learning curve.

 

I've faced the same issues trying to teach digital pattern making, even with the millennial generation.

Thank you so much for the suggestions. Duly noted. I hope I can get many more ideas with this quality level.

I'm a great fan of Andrew Price (Blender Guru). I've learned so much in terms of the content as well as how a good tutorial is made. The more you see other people's tutorials you can't help but think how things should be done.

I will modify the post to include my Instagram account so you can follow the progress of this Enterprise.

Best

P

1
Comment actions Permalink

Hi!  Great idea creating an intermediate class.  I took a Udemy class in Marvelous that was very helpful-the class went quickly from beginner covering some great topics.  I have been able to transfer the knowledge from that class straight to CLO.  

I think one should build their library of garments, trims and fabrics.  So any items that would be the basis of library would be helpful!  (hoodies, tees, jeans, skirts)

Happy to join your community!

Keep in touch!

Nancy

0
Comment actions Permalink

Hi Pablo, definitely a good idea

1) First of all an absolute beginner needs to become familiar with the interface. That can be boring but necessary. 
    I think one lesson for the 2D and another for the 3D window are the minimum. Also, the concept of the two separate areas must be explained clearly
2)  The intermediate level is hard to define. At that point each as its weakest point. Also, it depends on what are they using the software.
     Probably at that level, we are able to find what we need on the internet.
    Maybe a nice thing to do is some lesson about how to use other 3d software to make stuff to import into Clo or viceversa. (I had a nice lesson how to create more realistic zip. Do you                remember?)
3) A skirt is always a good starting point, It can even be created directly in Clo easily. Then the project could be used to make transformation along with the lessons.
    Pants, better jeans, loops. To this project, at the right moment in the course could be added a belt created as an accessory with its bulk.
    A padded jacket for the final stage.
5)  the lesson mustn't be more than 10/15 minutes each.
     I follow Blender courses on Udemy ( 300+ lessons) and tI find difficult to follow the ones that were more than 20 minutes. Keep in mind that when we are in the learning process we have to       process the information and, usually, try to replicate what we see on the screen.
     Also, the input must be shown clearly and when it's possible a quick resume in pdf format can help. 
 I'll be tuned.
Daniele

0
Comment actions Permalink

Thanks so much Daniele. I knew you were going to bring in some great insight.

Yes, lessons shouldn't be more than 15 minutes. I've been watching lots of tutorials too and taking notes. Simple things like not using an intro on every chapter goes a long way to keep the tutorial from being annoying.

Keep up the good work!

P

1
Comment actions Permalink
ikafx

I followed you Pablo on Instagram. And you followed back :) 

I would like to see tutorials not just covering the digital parts of CLO but also the complete process of something going from digital to physical. So from digital conception to printing the pattern cutting the fabric and sewing it all together to see the completed physical item. I know a lot of CLO users are coming from the physical to digital world. I'm the opposite my first degree was in 3D Animation so I can conceptually build something in 3D but getting it to the physical real world is the part I get tripped up on. That is why I chose CLO to bring my creations into the real world.

Perhaps that is the intermediate & advanced topic. lol 

I don't mind watching longer videos as long as what is being taught is informative. The problem comes about if the video is long and there is a lot of words with very little action. One of the things I hate on videos is if they are too short like less than 2 minutes for a topic. There is a good overview for MD on Cubebrush where the presenter has some videos that are 50 seconds long. I wish he would have merged them with other videos to make them longer especially for the one off tips & tricks. Even a single video that is an hour long but is chronologically easy to follow a project tutorial is better than many short videos IMO. Game artist Madina Chionidi did it both ways for her tutorials on MD. Some of her tutorials are split into multiple videos and others one long video. In her multi-file tutorials she didn't break up the topics into multiple videos instead each topic was its own video.

Andy Brown from Foundry makes really good tutorials too. Even his short ones he packs a lot of information that is clear and informative but easy to follow. The awesomeness of video is you can pause it and move the play head back to parts that you missed or need clarification on when following along. I did a tutorial from Andy that was building a space ship in Modo. I recorded my screen and made a time lapse cause I wanted to see my progress. It is kind of funny to watch as you can look up at the title bar and see it switch from Modo to Finder about a 1000 times through the time lapse. Those were the times I was pausing the video or trying to understand something. He has some short videos on YouTube under the Foundry/Modo channels. I could also provide you with a couple of his tutorial videos if you want to see how he structures the paid tutorials.

Another good example to see how tutorial videos are structured is from Proko. His paid tutorials are just longer versions and more in-depth explanations of his free tutorials that he publishes to YouTube.

You need to also include the project files in different stages of completion. It is a good way to compare but also a good starting point if the audience wants to jump ahead to a certain topic and doesn't want to progress chronologically through the tutorial. 

Below this line ---------- is production suggestions. 

Also what makes a good tutorial is before you even record anything build your project multiple times to practice it. Build your script for the voice over based on your multiple practices. It is good way to find the gotcha's that come up when going through a tutorial. It also helps so that you can figure out what not to say. This pre-production will make the actual recording process easier to edit and produce. It is like using muslin to make sure the design works after being sewn before using leather. Leather isn't as forgivable as muslin when you make a mistake. Same goes for video recording. Always sucks to have many retakes cause something was missed in pre-production. In video the mistake is wasted time. 

I would suggest to sign up for the YouTube Partner Program (free) as YouTube provides free training/tutorials/advice on making sure your videos are watchable and how to avoid some of the headaches and pitfalls that come up with video production.

Lastly make sure your audio is top notch. I would invest in a good microphone and audio recording solution. Research shows that humans will watch something that is of poor video quality if the audio is excellent. But not watch something if the audio is bad even if the video is excellent. 

0
Comment actions Permalink

Wow Ikafx, that's great advice. I appreciate the thoroughness. Please do share the tutorial videos from Foundry/Modo. I'm actually taking notes from you guys and other sources before starting actual production.

I've heard the sound advice twice now exactly as you've described it. I will definitely make sure this part is covered.

Looking forward for more interaction and keep tuned to the Instagram feed as I progress to this goal.

 

P

0
Comment actions Permalink

I think a tutorial class would be great. I'm new to Clo3d and have taught myself from watching youtube videos. I have only been using the program for 2 months and realize I have alot to learn as I do not have a background in sewing so creating patterns is completely new to me. Here are a few things that I think would be beneficial to beginners:

1. How to use all the tools. There are so many tools. I think it would be greatly appreciated if you made short videos that tell how use each tool which will make it easier for learners to reference just that section that they are having an issue with. For example, creating pleats from start to finish using the auto pleat tool. 

2. How to make your avatar move using various plug ins and where to find them. Part of the reason I was interested in using this program was to have the opportunity to see my garments move on a body. This is something I am having trouble with finding on youtube. (I would be willing to pay for a class online if it were available) If anyone has any suggestions that would be appreciated.

- Latifa 

 

0
Comment actions Permalink

Latifa, thanks for posting your ideas here. I agree, there are many tools. I've been leaning towards creating the Beginners series using a project and using the tools as the project needs it, instead of separate tools videos.

The Auto Pleat tool is one powerful tool, although my personal preference is to do it manually. Every time I've tried to get advantage of it, it requires so much preparation and things to be in place in a certain way that I might as well just do it from scratch. I'd guess that if someone is using it a lot, it might be a life saver.

I agree on the movement. It is for sure something for intermediate to advance in CLO as it is very specific.

If you'd like help with your projects we are available here in the forum. If you need something quicker and more in depth I can be of assistance as many other fellow PowerUsers here. You can reach out to me at pablo.quintana@forastyle.com or follow me in http://instagram.com/fora_style

P

1
Comment actions Permalink
pslj

I think beginner/intermediate tutorials is exactly what this community needs! By that I mean something beyond a point and click video walking new users through features. It would be incredibly helpful to have someone explain and walk new users through specific projects. Could also be interesting to include something that might test knowledge at the end of the project. 

  1. A) Explanation of tools and side bars - there is so much to wrap your head around! B) Uploading a DXF file and explain step by step how to organize pattern pieces, sew and drape basic items (from 2D to 3D); i.e. t-shirt, pants, hoodie, dress, etc. - including simple findings such as zippers and buttons, etc. C) Materials walk-through - draping knits vs. woven fabrics. D) Creating a 2D pattern block from scratch (basic items) 
  2. Here would be a good place to expand on the basics I mentioned above and focus on more advanced patterns, such as ones that include pleats, collars, cuffs, asymmetrical designs, etc. 
  3. When you are trying to decide what garments to showcase in each course, it might make sense to look at beginners drafting/pattern making courses and intermediate/advanced curriculums. 
  4. Basic knowledge of fashion design (pattern drafting and sewing) for the beginners course. By the intermediate course, there should be a basic knowledge of 3D modelling and a more advanced knowledge of pattern drafting. 
  5. I agree with what ikafx said about bringing patterns from digital to physical - it would be great to know how CLO works in both directions. I would love to be able to pattern draft in the 2D environment, drape the prototype, make changes and actually export physical patterns. In a few of the webinars they are creating patterns in the 3D environment - physically on the avatar - but it is a quick snippet and not a thorough walk-through. 

Sign me up! 

Thanks,

Lyndsey 

0
Comment actions Permalink

Thanks so much Lyndsey. A pattern is starting to emerge from all your comments. One thing that is still not clear is, project based or tool based videos. Here the jury is still out.

Yes, there is so much to wrap your head around. I'd probably like to hear from more experienced CLO or MD users out there, how many of the total tools available they think they use. I'd say I probably work with less than 50% of them to create what I need.

I will post some progress on Instagram later this week to keep you all updated.

 

P

0
Comment actions Permalink
ottoline

6 people is not a market test, it's perhaps a chat in a taxi ... on the way to the main event ... where you will meet the full audience of 20,000 at a show.

0
Comment actions Permalink

Hi ottoline. Thanks for leaving the post online this time. I've read the other two posts on my email notification, but then couldn't find them here.

You are totally right, not a market test. And this is just a symptom of a deeper issue in our community (I mean the Fashion community) which is we tend to be overzealous of what we know so sharing doesn't come natural.

You post very elaborate replies to user's questions. Sometimes even things way above my understanding or interest at the moment.

From the other posts I feel you believe that an online training like this should only be made by experts, because of the risk of instilling wrong habits in beginners by doing "cheap" videos. Do you foresee any experts doing training videos soon? How would you fill the gap that exists in self-taught resources for CLO3D now?

P

 

0
Comment actions Permalink
ikafx

Honestly having videos from anyone that uses the software not only helps the community (regardless if its paid or free) but also the person making the videos. As a content creator you get better with every video and you learn from past videos and comments from the viewers to create better content in the future. 

If we only watch videos from self described "experts" we would only learn from their point of view. Also I don't think there are any bad or wrong habits when learning or working in software. Everyone ends ups with their own unique workflow. And if you only follow one specific process you might miss out on something. I personally want to watch and learn from multiple people cause each person has a different way in how they create and solve problems. 

So Pablo go create your videos. In fact I encourage everyone to create videos and share their knowledge. It makes a stronger community and makes CLO more welcoming to new users.

One tip to anyone creating tutorial videos if you don't want to add dialog add music please (not elevator music). As the limited videos covering CLO on YouTube almost all seem to have no audio. It really sucks to watch a tutorial video that is completely silent.

0
Comment actions Permalink
ikafx

Edit: looks like the comment I was replying to got deleted. :( 

Not sharing knowledge and information cause you are are afraid of copycats and NDA's? I call BS. Every industry has copycats and counterfeits. If something is in high demand or it is too expensive in certain markets it will be counterfeited. If something is unique or revolutionary it will be copied. NDA's creates confidential relationships between parties that cover confidential and proprietary information or trade secrets. A NDA essentially protects non-public business information.

None of that above prevents an individual from sharing their knowledge how to use a software application to create vertices that become edges and eventually 2D polygons. Then connecting multiple 2D polygons at the edges to create a 3D shape that will then be simulated by said software using soft body dynamics and physics to model cloth. This process is not proprietary it has been published in research articles in peer reviewed journals many times. Many people from game studios, VFX studios, freelancers, educators, researchers, and even fashion designers have shared their knowledge without fear of releasing proprietary secrets. If you do not want to share your knowledge with the greater user base just say so and move on.

From my perspective the CLO forums are more used as tech support than general learning questions and community interactions. On the other hand if one goes to the Marvelous Designer forum it is very active with all types of interactions and questions taking place every day. In fact the CLO Fashion community managers for Marvelous Designer team actually create tutorial videos on the regular and even ask for input on what to cover next. Also I've noticed that the CLO Fashion YouTube channel is also adding more tutorial videos more frequent for CLO.

Data science tells us with the use of statistical inference and modeling that even with the small sample size just inside this thread compared to the greater user base size as a whole that we can accurately predict with high probability what the majority would like. To put our small sample size into perspective there are 327.2 Million people in United States and it would only take a sample size of 100,000 people to predict the 2020 presidential election with 100% accuracy with a 0.3% margin of error. Considering that there is only 1 negative comment in this entire thread I think we all know what the prediction would be without modeling it in R. 

0
Comment actions Permalink

Ikafx, loved your post and I like that some sparks can be finally generated in this Forum. I also liked ottoline's post, which is gone from the Forum but lives in my inbox now. =)

I agree with ottoline's view that the silence could mean that the majority of CLO3D Online  users (in contrast to Enterprise which have personal support included) are happy CLO'ing and don't need much of support.

I had a recent talk with the team at CLO Online and they agreed with me that the reason why MD is so active is because of the target audience. In this case the VXF or gaming community, which naturally, they come more "nerdy" (non-pejoratively).

Recently I've been listening to The Collective Podcast with Ash Thorp (totally recommended) which spends one to two hours talking with CG professionals, motion graphics, artists and the like. He frequently touches the point of sharing. Everyone of these great artists arrive to the point that sharing is much better than not doing it. You have to see these guy's work to fathom the level at which they create and then think that they share they techniques so easily for everyone to benefit.

On the statistics part, yes, the smaller the variation of the samples taken from the population, the less samples needed for a high accuracy inference. So far, this is the case towards let's make the online course. Still some variation as to what is the content, project or tool based learning, the duration of the videos, etc. We'll have to gather more samples. For that CLO Online will soon help us with a survey.

Looking forward to continue having this enriching discussions.

P

0
Comment actions Permalink
cafitness

I am new to CLO. I was expecting to be able to create my custom avatars and then be able to modify slopers into my designs. My objective is to offer clothing that fits different body shapes and sizes. Unfortunately I have not been able to create an avatar that looks like me and therefore I am starting to loose interest in the software.

1. I would like basic tutorials on the many tools. I have been following you tube videos but I would like to see higher quality videos. I am using a MacBook pro 2012 vintage ... maybe not the right tool for the software.

2. I would like to learn how to create a custom avatar with the measurements in the right places. The software is lacking differentiation between the front rise and back rise. It also lacks differentiation between the front and back upper and lower bust measurements. These are key metrics for pattern development and I am surprise that CLO claims to be able to create the pattern without the proper measurement differentiation.

3. I would like to load my own fabric and dress my designs with the fabric so that I can use these designs for my online store.

4. I would like to learn how to save different avatars and their respective patterns/garments.

Overall, I believe CLO has potential but it need to fix a few things before it can truly be called a complete piece of software for the designer/manufacturer.

I am seeing more videos but they are not addressing my current needs.

 

0
Comment actions Permalink

Thanks for taking the time to write here, even when you are interest is dwindling now. I have to tell you, I am a pattern maker and a manufacturer too and there is A LOT of usefulness in the software even as it is now. I hear you and agree totally with the avatar measurements. I will recommend a few posts that talk about this in detail. I hope that can renew your interest in the tool for your business. If you need help with something more specific, please post it in the forum and we will be happy to help you.

https://support.clo3d.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360000165927-Using-3rd-Party-Avatars-in-CLO

https://support.clo3d.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360014682933-CLO-x-Mixamo-A-Basic-Guide-

https://support.clo3d.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360002654667-The-standard-sizes-of-avatars-

 

P

0
Comment actions Permalink
ikafx

@Pablo 

I completed some certificates for Data Science through Harvardx so the inference and modeling were fresh on my brain. 

Even though every user could benefit from any available training I think the biggest targeted groups are those who are either in the Individual or Business license since only Enterprise customers get on-site training. Plus those Enterprise customers most likely have trainers within their walls that are able to help their employees. That is what I took away from ottoline's comments is the majority of "CLO" users are in in the Enterprise category and do not really need training. And yes there are a lot of good training already available but from my searching it seems more targeted to MD. Camille Kleinman with CGElves has a 52.5 hour training for all things MD for example. VFX artist usually do not model unseen polys (like inside of pockets) as that is waisted resources and adds to the total rendering time. 

@cafitness

The Avatar editor isn't clear on what settings are linked. For example always change the height first or it will screw up all the other settings if you change it later. For the bust circumference you also need to change the under-bust or the avatar will become a humpback. I always change with Advanced settings as the basic or intermediate doesn't always react as one would think. I would like to see CLO have the settings that compliment each other and need to be changed together to be grouped together. I think it took me 30 minutes to tweak the settings and see what changed to get an avatar that was accurate for my body. I think the only way to really see if the Avatar matches is to build something easy then print out the pattern then use muslin to see if anything needs to be adjusted in the Avatar Editor.

There is a YouTube video where a CLO user describes how to get the avatar to match a custom measurement. Here is an excellent video on modifying the settings for custom sizing in the Avatar Editor. https://youtu.be/VDg3L6eY5lU This video shows a lot of other custom things you can do to the Avatars. 

Also you can get industry standard sizing modeled after real fit models at https://alvanon.com/resources/alvaform-measurements-specs/ which might help. This video shows you how to use these sizings and also save a new Avatar for later. https://youtu.be/EZxqp_44900 The presenter is a bit difficult to understand but its still informational. 

For loading in custom fabric into CLO you need to Email CLO support and ask about their Fabric Kit 2.0 which they describe in this video: https://youtu.be/HA7HoK6_4Fk 

I found on my Mac that CLO runs a lot better with as much memory as you can give it. Also for 'vintage' systems keep the Particle Distance high to prevent it from slowing down the computer. 

 

0
Comment actions Permalink
cafitness

Thank you Pablo and ikfax for the recommendations. I will review the links you attached. I was avoiding using external apps for the avatar but I have not tried to see how easy or difficult it is to do so. 

 

0
Comment actions Permalink
ottoline

Pablo it's hard to understand whether you are acting as an agent of CLO3D (in some way representing them formally) or are simply a user of the CLO3D software product interested in tutorials and using a single thread to test the feedback about 3rd party newby online courses? Which is it - for some clarity.

 

What do you mean by 'we' are here available for help in the forum? Who is 'we' ? CLO3D the organization, an individual or a specialist clothing CG company or an employees of CLO3D? Anyone reading the responses might become quickly confused as to the emphasis and scope of who 'we' includes. Are you a team of professional video makers whom do educational content or something else - what are the expectations (longer term) that would be good to convey ?

 

 

0
Comment actions Permalink

Hi ottoline. I think you are right, it might be confusing. The "we" is "we, the CLO Community". I refer to the people that are willing to help, being it a CLO Virtual Fashion employee, individual users, Power Users (designated by CLO Online) and even Enterprise users.

The reason I use "we" is because I'd like to let newcomers to the Forums feel that there is a group of professionals or enthusiasts that have been learning the trade and are prompt to resolve doubts or share techniques about the use of CLO3D.

So, for clarity purposes:

DISCLAIMER

THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY THE USER "PABLO QUINTANA", HEREINAFTER REFERRED TO AS "THE USER", ARE  SOLELY OF THE "THE USER" AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REPRESENT THOSE OF CLO VIRTUAL FASHION AND ITS EMPLOYEES. "THE USER" IS NOT ASSOCIATED IN ANY WAY WITH CLO VIRTUAL FASHION, EXCEPT AS AN INDIVIDUAL LICENSE HOLDER FOR CLO3D.

Ottoline, you really know how to push the right button on people.

=)

0
Comment actions Permalink
ottoline

I am making people think so you get to what matters faster rather than not. 

 

There is undoubtedly room for more CLO3D tutorials BUT you need to find a niche and format that builds cross over with the newbies you wish to target and with that you need to find common shared ground and values.

0
Comment actions Permalink
ikafx

I don't understand why there is this hang up on certain words that are being used in this conversation. Nitpicking over the word "we" to convey the CLO community or the CLO users as a whole in a forum post reply has to be the craziest thing I have ever read on a software user forum. Is it a language barrier issue of not understanding?

I'm a relatively new user of CLO and not once did I ever think that Pablo was an agent of CLO Virtual Fashion Inc., (CLO Fashion going forward) or someone who was misrepresenting himself as such. I see Pablo just as another fellow user wanting to both help other users and share his knowledge with us. Just in case there is a misunderstanding of the word "us" I am meaning "we" as everyone or all users of CLO Fashion's software applications including Marvelous Designer not just CLO.

I have RTFM and it is basic information at best and not very in-depth and the videos barely scratch the surface. I don't live in a city like NYC where physical user forums are common to share information in person. Also there seems to be this elitist attitude from some that any type of training has to be either rubbing shoulders with industry insiders, paying for high cost in-person training bootcamp style, or if anyone who wants to offer training needs to be in a niche category.

ottoline wrote "you need to find a niche and format that builds cross over with the newbies you wish to target and with that you need to find common shared ground and values. You do that by being strategic and getting down to brass tacks on what matters and confronting what is not yet known. Aka - your relationship needs to be crystal clear so newbies whom have no real knowledge on the wider training landscape of choice get a clear picture so they can make an informed clear decision. That is 'trust' in a nutshell and acting in good faith by not indirectly trading on the reputation of others (and I know that is not the intent - but you need to make it clear so there can be no confusion - even if accidental -  by unfamiliar new users)."

I kind of find that insulting actually that you think that new users are unfamiliar with identifying who is offering the training either it be CLO Fashion or another user. Especially when at the start of this very thread said user who actually wants to help others in this community specifically said that he is a user of CLO and wants to make a beginner video series and asked us what topics to cover to help shape the series. Right there in black & white we already know his intentions. Also in this day and age of the Internet and YouTube and the fact by a keystroke on my keyboard I can learn about anything from anywhere in the world. But I guess being a "newbie" means I don't know how to use that Internet thing to find that elusive choice to get the informed clear decision of who I want to learn from.

ottoline wrote "That allows you to openly claim the ground you seek as 'yours' unhindered with incumbents. And those incumbents can be ludicrously simple things like embedded comments in videos or tray logotypes of the CLO3D brand that imply confusion that cannot be readily struck out without costly remaking if you get asked to remove them later once composited across a series of learning. So do the investigative ground work well. This has happened repeatedly in the past"

Pablo up above in the thread has already disclosed that he contacted CLO Fashion about this training and they were on board. I've never seen a trainer lose their ability to show training video on software when the software name is shown in the video or when the software name is embedded in the closed captioning. I wouldn't be surprised if CLO Fashion actually ends up linking Pablos training from their Learn Menu or even in their Partner list. CLO Fashion says that "We partner with industry leaders that are as passionate about 3D as we are." Pablo said already at the beginning that he has learned a lot about 3D and he wants to teach others. Nothing spells out passionate about 3D more than wanting to be a teacher to others. 

ottoline wrote "You don't need to always make massive paragraph disclaimer front and center in CAPS, it should be obvious from the outset, and you can push that 'type' of confrontational disclaimer happily to the bottom of a page (where it belongs in 7pt text). My point is ...  it should be obvious as to what and where you are coming from in terms of 'niche' learning videos and there should not be any possible confusion."

I know I'm a new user and all and apparently we "newbies" don't have real knowledge of the wider training landscape and who is actually representing who. But even I know that giant disclaimer in caps was tongue in cheek and the fact you point it out makes it even funnier.

I hope that the community managers for CLO Fashion are following this thread. I want them to know as a new user I want more "ambassadors" of CLO Fashion like Pablo who wants to share their knowledge of this software. I don't care if he is a fashion designer, a specialist for a clothing CG company or just an individual like myself. His knowledge is valuable to me cause he is willing to share it. 

0
Comment actions Permalink
ottoline
 
ikafx - my post it was geared to clarity, so that you don't have to redo anything after you make costly videos (it's Pablo cost after all) by embedding into them things that the parent brand could potentially ask to be omitted. And to that end I am saying make it clear, be forth right on who 'we' means when embedded in promotional or marketed media.If CLO3D endorse the videos then all the better, and I am sure they will get behind anyone wanting to do tutorials as they have done in the past. I am making sure that Pablo puts their best foot forward because others in the past have assumed things around CLO3D and MD branding and found out later that is not always the case in making claims that surround their IP and brand values. So it's just prudent to get that out the way in a test tutorial video.

Take a punt and present it to them first and then see what others think. I have been quite clear on that as a good step forward in the absence of real statistical cross over with market numbers to check what end users really want. And if Pablo shows that effort to CLO3D perhaps they will be more likely to give insight to their end user base of hard earnt IP market intelligence. Don't assume it - find out by forging some relationships by offering up effort in exchange for insight, lubricate the wheels of engagement.
 
No one is saying not to get out and do stuff - quite the reverse, but realize industry experience allows you a certain level of ability to jump start how you might engage with added value higher up the educational cycle or cross over. That is not to say you cannot add value if you don't have that experience - you just need to do it more strategically.
 
Find out - ask CLO3D whom hold deeper market knowledge or create a joint marketing exercise or video test that pushes to those ends to get that cross over and broadens both you and CLO3D's knowledge in beginners or intermediate courses. But be prepared for experienced users and working professionals (whom many CLO3D newbies may be) to ask deep technical questions (have a place for that exchange).More thought ... and ikafx it's not another 'video' that needs to be made from my viewpoint, it's the 'common ground' on learning that needs to be arrived at first and communicated as the backbone of difference to drive successful content or subject matter.

CLO3D newbies typically come from the Drafting fashion CAD sector (30yrs) but often don't have 3D CG skills, rigging animation, texturing, scanning. Yet the many new CG schools (less than 15 years) in visualization have these skills and the crowd is young - experience is relative to the direction you come at the when learning. There is no battle - that is misrepresenting one group over the other. One has pattern making skills (fashion) the other generally has none (CG). There is common ground here - a space to share on ... but first you need to dig deep on where that is with market cross over and research what is. That is my point don't make assumptions. Know 1st hand.
0
Comment actions Permalink
ikafx

ottoline, I apologize I was reading your comments as critical detractors and you made it more clear on your last reply.

I have to admit I'm going on 25 years of being apart of the CG community in some form or fashion. A lot of the training that I purchased in the mid 90s to early 2000s were structured pretty much all the same most likely due to the trainers not having the luxury to make specific targeted videos due to the very high cost of video production. Screen recording was a very difficult task back then usually done by hardware based frame grabbers in order to get the highest quality possible for reproduction. 

The structure was always overview of interface, then tool based videos describing the entire tool set before moving on to project based training utilizing the tools that were introduced in the first half of the training. Even books follow this same structure. You can see this style of training still exists today though sites like Lynda.com and Plural Sight not just for 3D but for all applications. 

It's only been maybe 10 years now that some trainers are breaking the mold by not following the traditional structure but instead by teaching the toolset organically. I personally like this style as you still get the overview of the interface but you do not get overwhelmed by learning the entire tool set at the beginning with no context in how you would actually use the tool in production. There still are the main categories of basic, intermediate and advanced but now the training is over specific projects within those main categories. Which I guess could be that niche areas of focus instead of covering the entire application a-to-z. 

 

0
Comment actions Permalink

Whew! That was a long but interesting long read. =)

Both very interesting. First of all ifakx thank you for recognizing the good will that is fueling this whole endeavor. I agree that sometimes ottoline's comments tend to be tinted by a detractor or "hater" hue. Not sure why, but they come across like that.

Nonetheless, the discussion is very deep and rich, much more than the majority of the posts I've seen here for some years now. I just couldn't believe that the CLO'ers in the forum were not as experienced or savvy as people I generally see in many other computer related forums. Now I know I wasn't wrong.

I am keeping notes of the comments and extracting good practices for what is to come.

On a more practical sense, has anyone reading this thread seen videos from Chris Barin? I recently spent watching 13 hours of content (well less, playback was at 2x) on a Photoshop training, and have to say I liked it much. Even the fact that he, not being a native English speaker, hired another person to do the narration. Any comments on what you think about his style would be appreciated.

Cheers!

P

Please sign in to leave a comment.