Very Close Fit Garments - Corsets - Strapless Foundation Garments- Interconstruction - Boning
I would like to know if it is technically possible to model very close fitting garments in Clo.
Specifically I would like to use the software to model corset designs and/or strapless foundation garments with supporting interconstruction.
For waist reduction targets I think you might reduce the avatar waist in the editor to match a target waist reduction as this would allow for a good representation in 3D and allow for accurate pattern/panel sizing. However some of the waist reduction in reality is achieved by tightening the corset in the back with lacing.
So what approach might be taken to configure a specific gap between the back panels where the laces come together?
Corsets and foundation garments often rely on boning to support the garment particularly where waist reduction is desired and where support is needed to make the garment 'stand up' around the bust for example.
Is this possible in Clo? How would you model boning?
I am really hoping this type of drafting is technically feasible in Clo.
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Dear @allyshake,
I think it is best for us to test out creating corsets in CLO before answer to your questions. I'm wondering if you have patterns for the corset you want to model in CLO?
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Erica thanks, will do. I have a basic pattern draft but its done in AutoCad. I believe there is an issue with the AutoCad DXF format, so should I attache a PDF? Will that work?
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ottoline thanks good advice. I can get measurements from someone who had a form made on a CNC mill from a scan. She has two, one whilst wearing a corset and one with basic undergarments only. So I could compare measurements.
The basic approach when drafting the corset is that the target waist reduction is subtracted from the base waist measurement of the person and then I believe subtracted from the width of the centre back panels where the lacing is. However this in my mind doesnt take account of the squish of the stomach area in the front of the body for example.
The initial aim is to see if Clo will handle a very close fit, i.e. with no ease and the garment contouring the body; and how to support what is effectively strapless foundation garment when gravity is applied during the Simulation so that it doesnt fall to the ground. Particularly for under-bust examples where the garment supports the bust but does not cover it
Thats where the boning part comes into the equation maybe.
Once this proof of concept is done I could use avatars with smaller waists to do 'look' iterations of more complex corset designs so that vintage patterns can be visualised in 3D
Finally it would be great to do some comparisons to develop fit/measurement tables so that what is effectively negative ease can be built into patterns in order to print usable pattern drafts.
Whether I do the draft in Clo or by hand would depend on how accurate the reduced avatar was. Of course there is no substitute for doing a toile in fabric on a form or person, but sometimes that isnt possible if the person is in another country!
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Hi Everyone,
I have experimented making corsets from scratch using the flattening tool and the technique I outline here. https://support.clo3d.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360002324588-Bra-Underwire-How-to-make-wire-using-Flattening
Below is the advice I can give when trying to maker a larger garment like a corset.
1. before you flatten the boning pieces you must make the default particle distance low .
2. Boning must be frozen immediately and never simulated or it will lose it's shape.
2. You should flatten each boning piece one at a time - this keeps them in their best possible location as close to the body as possible.
3. I make the avatar skin offset lower, .1 or 0. not entirely sure if this makes a huge difference but just in case!
4. You'll have to delete some flattening lines that makeup the boning strips before you can use flatten to generate the larger body/shell pieces.
5. Changing sewing tine type to turned at appropriate areas is very important and you will have to do this at some edges for the boning.
I recorded myself going through the process but don't have time to finish completely at the moment, but you can see how I created the boning and shell and everything. Here is part 1 of this project: https://youtu.be/DojTx6pkfo0
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Thanks Michelle, this is fantastic and shows that I can achieve my goal in Clo. I am only just starting to learn the software and some of the techniques you show above might be a little advanced for me at this point. Still I am excited to be able to potentially do this.
BTW did you just use the standard avatar sizing, or reduce the waist size in the avatar editor before you modelled the corset?
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Hi Michelle, I have watched your Youtube video at slow speed but a few things are beyond my skill level at this stage. No fear I will experiment. Could I ask a huge favour. Is it possible to email me the project file so I can dissect the pieces. That way I can look at the property manager to see what settings you have used for stitch line type etc.
I am wondering if drawing the panels first in the 3D window, followed by the boning channels would achieve the same outcome. That way you could use the line offset tool to offset an equal distance either side of the seam as in most cases where a boning channel covers a seam it does so equidistantly.
Also boning doesn't always cover a seam and may be stitched to a panel in its centre for example. How would I do that? I assume you can create stitching lines like topstitching in places on the pattern piece that aren't necessarily a seam??
I know you are busy, but if at some point you get the time to voice over your Youtube video that would be absolutely FANTASTIC!!!
Thankyou so much for your efforts to help me out. It is truly appreciated.
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One last thing. Right at the end of the vid you added straps and I assume this was done to keep the top of the bust cup from falling away from the breast. In a real life corset the stiffness of the coutil fabric, the contoured shaping and the tightness of the corset all work together in order to keep the garment tightly hugged against the body. The majority of corset designs therefore don't have straps.
How might we simulate this? Ideally the combination of the above factors would suffice so that patterns taken from the 2D mock up will closely match the real world for a first toile.
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Thanks @ottoline Please forgive my lack of Clo knowledge. I understood most of your tips. Could you clarify a few points please. Also do you have a website where I could see your products?
I belong to a Facebook Group of corset makers. My aim is to model vintage corset flat patterns in 3D so the group can visualise them as this is far easier to do than just looking at a pattern.
Quote If placing laces or open weave notions (trim)... Would you advocate doing the lacing for a corset as a trim outside of the Clo environment. i.e. not modelling it as a lace. It looks like it might be difficult to manipulate in the Clo 3D window in order to place a lace through the grommets for example?
Quote: The application Pix-plant has the best seamless tile and image distortion (correction) algorithm on the market for a low price point, for making fabric and lace trim texture repeats. Do you have any jpeg examples of how you incorporate this workflow into Clo?
Quote: You can try out free texture software using shader-map 4... I assume this is used in post to add particular textures to fabrics in Clo?
Quote: If you export internal lines inside pattern pieces after draping... Would this be the best method for modelling the laces perhaps?
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@ottoline You have been more than generous with your time, and your answers and advice is much appreciated, thanks
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Firstly, what an engaging discussion here! Thanks all!
@allyshake, the PDF should work :) As you cannot attach the file, would you mind sharing it via cloud storage link such as Google Drive or WeTransfer? Or anything you prefer.
Thanks~
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@Erica thanks here is the link https://we.tl/i6s3mWU18d
I tried getting it into Clo but could not get it to work.
I have included a dwg, dxf and pdf.
I even tried saving the PDF as an AI Pdf but still couldn't get it to work.
It was drawn by a professional pattern maker in AutoCad originally so the paths should be closed etc.
No idea what I am doing.
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@allyshake Thanks for the file.
I opened it and figured that the patterns are composed of different line like shapes, not "lines".
When I zoom in to the file, I can see shapes, not lines.
normally, a single line show appear like below in Illustrator.
I hope you see the difference :( So, my speculation is that there was an error when converting the dxf file in the illustrator....
I suggest you either trace the patterns with the Pen tool in the illustrator or.. if you are comfortable drafting patterns in CLO, it maybe easier to start directly in CLO! As other users have already mentioned, the Flattening tool is quite useful as well!Sorry I couldn't give you a simple solution :(
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mmm so what if you just have a normal pdf, (not a AI/PDF), can you get that into Clo and trace it? I think maybe others import it as a texture and then trace it???
I had partial success when rasterised the image in Illustrator, then stroked the path. This gave me a closed path with one line and I got something into Clo but had difficultly manipulating it.
What line weight is best in Illustrator to subsequently bring into Clo?
I am so disheartened as I wanted to try and do my first pattern in Clo.
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@allyshake, sorry for the disappointment :(
May I have the normal PDF file you are referring to? and the one you had partial success?One additional tip for PDF files created in AI is that they should work well in CLO regardless the line weight! If you are having an issue importing a pdf file which seem to have all closed shapes, I suggest you to draw a rectangle encompassing all patterns. (Image illustrated below)
As you see below, the polygon within the rectangle is not an enclosed shape, but since it is encompassed within a closed shape, it can be opened in CLO!
VS.
And another tip would be you can use the Trace tool to trace the internal shapes as Patterns.
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Thanks heaps, I haven't quite given up. I rasterised all the pieces, got rid of the grain and waist lines that were on the PDF. Image Traced in AI, then tidied up and put a box around the whole thing and saved as a PDF.
Then the import to Clo gave me something, but I am not sure how to proceed.
Here is the png Clo project file:
Thanks Erica for your patience!
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I am on my way, having successfully got the pdf into Clo, traced the outlines as pattern pieces, sewn and got it on an avatar. Lots to do though to get it anywhere near the one Michelle did but Im on the right path.
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yay!! I'm glad it worked!! I am looking forward to your finished garment!
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