3D Body Measuring App vs. CLO Avatar Size
Hi everyone,
I will be using a 3D body scanning app to get measurements from my clients and then change the avatar size in CLO, in order to auto grade the patterns. The only problem is that the avatar has a measurement called "CF to waist", but in the 3D body scanning app, I only get "side neck point to waist" measurement.
Is there any way I can alter or remove this measurement from the avatar?
Thank you!
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You can create a custom measure, but it won't be linked into the base mesh avatar measurement database at those a fixed measurement baselines or landmarks. So you could place your custom 'side neck to waist measurement tape' on the avatar in CLO3D save it as a .mea file and load it to any adjustable avatar and use the 'fit' button that will update that measure to your avatar based on the other measures you change.
See my post here >> Link
You can then place on all your custom tailoring measures
Avatar Editor > Avatar size Tab > manually input changed body dimensions > and see the digital scan now change shape to these new manual inputs.
Hit the 'Fit to avatar' icon button, and these two measures now snap to the new landmarks on the avatar.
I can now read off the new custom tailoring dimensions CF and HP should to waist, comfortable that I captured a digital update for that specific house model from 3 simple dimensions > under-bust, waist, high hip.
So it's quite simple. You can basically put in all you custom tailoring points for any garment style as .mea (measurement) sets save them and have them auto-update when the fit button is pushed. This way you can do custom tailoring and single measurement sets that you re-use again and again for custom scans.
What is very cool with CLO3D avatar editor, is that you can export the measures and custom measures you take as .csv data outputs that you can list into your own custom tables for EASY to READ filtered reports. Which is crucial when you have so many external house models or clients to create custom fits for. Tracking in realtime is possible and I strongly recommend that. In addition CLO3D has the CLOSET custom avatar creation process that you can load into the spec file, so when you consider what is possible for made to measure and handling production house models - the technical problems are similar.
This means with measurement data (and tracking regularly) you can start to do some online measurement magic that makes it really easy to create a ISO 9001 style report for fit sessions. So taking the time to administrate this to fit the purposes within what you do is crucial - as you can really leverage this aspect out so it is almost fully automated and cuts down on a huge amount of the technical work required to keep this up-to-date and managed remotely from mobile phone, tablet, laptop, no matter where you are on the planet. Perfect for measurement workshops, fitting sessions, and made to measure.
Above to create a custom report, I simply toggle on /off the dimensions I need to print out in pdf to go with the excel spec sheet, these can also be embedded into the digital spec sheet.
Do the same for a house model and digital avatar, every time their dimensions change (tape measure) you update the digital avatar of them, save the csv into a table to record that fit session change in body size, and then you have that in a pdf report to accompany the fit sessions. You can use the same approach for made to measure. Realtime easy to manage custom digital tailor reports that take a few clicks to update from any digital device. I use a tablet for a custom tailoring session and if the scan has been done, juts check a few measures by tape to bring it all back up to date for that house model fit session. That is the power of data and CLO3D working in concert to leverage out a digital 1st strategy. easy to do - a few hours admin work and total digital measurement workshop freedom.
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Hi ottoline and thank you for such detailed explanation. I really appreciate! Could you please let me know where exactly should I save the custom tape measurements once I made them? What is a CSV table.
And other question - I should save these custom tape measurements once and each time I have a new client, can I manually adjust them based on the client's measurements?
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There are two types of file formats you can save > the CLO3D software format for use in the library > the avatar and measure size files > these can stay in the library and are drag and drop files. However when you do spec sheets where you need hand copies of measurements you may also need to export measurement lists you can insert to a spread sheet or easy to read format. So thatis very dependent on how you work. For me I prefer to have this as both the 3D client avatar file (model) and also as table spread sheet data I can search in a separate system. So you maybe need to adopt your own process for that.
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The CSV data export format is simply a CSV comma-separated values file, which allows (measurement) data to be saved in a tabular format. CSV's look like a garden-variety spreadsheet.
You can export the general avatar tapes that come with the avatar editor and also add your few additional custom tapes and combine both into one table > spreadsheet. That assumes each time you scan a new client you save tabled measures. (see above where I list many sizes in a single table that is easy to search - filter for US ASTM avatars). For a single client you most likely only need to stay on top of the changes over time with the client, every-time their measures change after the initial fitting.
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Hi ottoline
Thanks a lot again and sorry if I understand a bit hard, but is it a way to manually just change the basic length, after I created a specific measurement?
I receive my clients measurements on an app and I have to manually change the avatar size with those specific measurements, in order to alter the pattern and make the garment fit them.
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When you add custom measures (tapes) to an avatar it is not interdependently adjustable like the > Avatar size < measures.
The adjustment of the avatar is limited to only those measures listed in the Details drop down > Basic > Advanced Human > Advanced Dressform.
It is these measurement points you should ask your client/ customer to input > as a start point. Don't get them to give you measures that are not in that list (to start with). Then input these (eg: basic measures) and your avatar will adjust to a basic size and shape.
At this point you can now focus in on the custom tapes, where you check the adjusted avatar to the clients shape by laying in some additional 'reference' body landmark or tailoring tapes like your HPS to waist.
You then place in that tape and read off the value > then check with your client is that correct? yes/no.
You cannot adjust this measure with a data input like the main driving measures in the Avatar size tab > this list of 'reference' measure tapes and landmarks are not relational like the other inputs.
So you need to approach measuring a client in a very ordered fashion. If you do it right the custom measures you create should read within acceptable tolerance of the clients actual measure they make. If not it means one of the other measures that drives the avatars 'relational' shape needs to change. In this case you would maybe ask the client to measure under the bust and across the bust and apex to apex halter neck and waist height to make sure those values are correct. If they are then the HPS to waist should now be right. Many of the problems occur where the client measuring is not done to the landmark points that define those areas. For example waist measure done manually is often a big factor in driving all other measures incorrectly. There is the 'waist', and then there is the natural waist - and people may subjectively get these wrong and consequently they may also get the height wrong for the waist to floor. The natural waist is not like the anthropometric waist. So you need to make sure you try this out and practice this skill on the critical measures so the adjustment process goes smoothly.
This is a key feature of the workflow > that you input with the client the key measures as they are shown in the Avatar size table. That is the 1st step. Then you reference check any custom measures you want for tailoring on the avatar and they should be correct if you adjusted the initial avatar correctly. I always recommend using the HPS as the height measure and the crotch height and girths for waist, bust, underbust, low hip and thigh as your 1st set of measures to get the avatar close to your client size. The adjust the others one at a time.
The avatar uses a relational database to slowly bring the avatar into shape. This means that when you adjust a single measure it may effect other related measures. So when you adjust a critical body measure like HPS and Crotch height the vertical trunk and total rise and waist height may change radically. SO IT IS IMPORTANT to note that some measures in the Avatar size table driving the digital model are more critical than others, as the relationships between bone structure can greatly impact the posture of the avatar and the torso length. This is how anthropometrics work.
So don't think of the custom tapes you create as driving measures > think of then as reference measures to check you have the digital avatars driving measure (tapes) inputs set correct for that client. Then place those on , name them. So this means you need to finish the initial client measuring session to to standard tapes, fix the avatar to that by saving it as a new size (see below) then add on your reference measure tapes to double check those tailor measures are correct to the client. If not adjust your avatar again.
Any reference tape you lay can be automatically updated (using the fit to avatar button)
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Can you custom create the avatar via API?
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No
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Could you please share the name of the app? (for body scan) Thank you very much! ottoline
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Hello chelym I had trouble signing into this new forum ???
So here is my 'bug-bear' rant for today. Basically takes about 5 minutes and 3 tries, and about 6 page refreshes. What the heck of a deterrent to using the CLO3D forum every time. Often why I now never post replies here as it's simply too much transaction hassle in my day, especially from the mobile phone - forget that as a task. So 18th century on the service tech front by CLO3D, when they are so switched on with everything else on their software ? Was this meant to be a forum upgrade - cos I am not feeling it? I created the biggest user portal for sports cycling, fishing and athletics, and driven content in the Europe and if I had approached a community forum with such a friction wall to sign in - well, it would have died a death by a 1000 login process hurdle cuts. CLO3D you have great information on this community forum site, but why make it so hard to log in? Beyond belief in todays world of mixed media and low friction usability. Discord CLO3D and MD works by way of contrast as it has fantastic low friction app transaction setup (my preferred way to now help users), you simply have that app on your own system and it's authorized against your profile that determines whom you are. Is it not about time you had a custom web/app, for the community forum so 'super-users' whom like to help new users don't have to go through so many login hassles for every reply post ? It's a turn off on replying to anyone whom needs help. Time to dust off the thinking caps and revisit the CLO3D login approach.
I am off my soap box now. Ha.
Hello chelym, the good news is CLO3D has some great internal tools for transferring any incoming (manifold) human surface model into a custom CLO3D avatar that uses any one of the base models in their avatar system. So this is where some clever 'surface interpolation' takes place in matching your external object (.obj) format scanned humans skin topography to the adjusted CLO3D avatar. This is a kind of weight mapping algorithm that passes over your imported avatar scan and then in realtime adjusts the CLO3D avatar character (male or female that you choose) to match that surface at key body surface points and landmarks. That's the special CLO3D magic, and it's awesome, as you woul otherwise need an external application like wrap3D to do that technical work externally. So hats off to CLO3D for including that as a process tool.
So with that short background > Now to your answer > you may use any 3D editing software to edit and clean up your avatar scan mesh (eg: free blender, maya, max, modo, zbrush, etc) that comes from the photogrammetry or laser scan booth process. So the workflow for a scanning a new human is like this. Human model walks into scanning dome or booth. This might use laser. lidar, doppler, photogrammetry, or photometric stereo types image data capture processes to capture the human models surface skin into cloud point data > this is then passed into processing software to create the surface mesh data from the cloud point data and image textures into a fbx/obj 3D mesh surface object (with or without) UV surface skin texture maps for that human model. This is often done in the scan booth at time of scanning or in photogrammetry, as a post editing automated workflow to produce the 3D surface mesh model > to then load into your mesh editing software like the free blender. Which is the app I use for this now. These scans might be many millions of polygons and they are then typically reduced once more to lower resolution 3D objects, with hundreds or tens of thousands of polygons so that they are light weight to use in apps like CLO3D or animation or gaming.In blender you also have sculpting and mesh retopology, automated addons that can do most of this grunt retopology work in a few clicks. As you will be using the CLO3D 'fit' avatar tools to carry out the surface interpolation you don't need perfect incoming quad mesh scan topography. However most advanced 3D scanning booth provide most of this automatically as they are actually interpolating a standard based avatar mesh onto a point cloud scan against human landmarks like feet, knees, hips, waist, bust hips etc. So they are often doing that just after they scan you. For photogrammetry you actually use a external workflow and an app like 3Dwrap to do that work a commercial scan booth might do as part of their service process. >> At this point the low and high poly 3D surface mesh is a closed shape (manifold volume) that can be used in CLO3D to create you custom 'fit' CLO3D (interpolated skin mesh) character avatar you may add into your library. So in CLO3D what you are finally dialing up as your custom avatar is a measurement data file for their standard male or female base quad mesh avatars that has been interpolated at the skin to match your 3D scan, that you now dump. This keeps the CLO3D custom avatars light weight but highly accurate to your original scanned data. So that is what is going on. Hope that helps you.
Look to a 3D surface editing app like blender, or any equivalent. That is what you can use to edit scanned data. Or you may simply use the commercial scan booth output, that does all that work for you, and you simply get a low poly cleaned up human scan. Both are valid approaches.
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@ottoline You are the best! Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I did the whole scanning booth myself (and it turned out amazing!) but wondered if there are any apps that do it properly without getting out of the house ;). Thanks again! I really appreciate it :)
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Yeah sure can do that. I actually just use photogrammetry in a white room to scan a house model on site using a hand held camera and a very still model. Then process that using any one of the free photogrammetry software's, and then take the form into blender and clean it up. It can be a long winded process if you don't know the steps or have that training. But you can get a model to step on a rotating platform, and keep the camera (with ring flash >> Godox Witstro Ring Flash AR400 ) front on and at varying heights. Human size turntable >> (https://reviewmeta.com/brand/comxim also see their remote software to hook up to your camera and the turntable https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0739R48VF?tag=reviewmeta0b-20&pldnSite=1 or https://www.amazon.com/Yuanj-Motorized-Turntable-Electric-Collectibles/dp/B014W1EUY4 )
See Meshroom >> https://alicevision.org/ for Photogrammetric software. >> https://github.com/alicevision/Meshroom
Alternatively there is the zozo MK2 suit. See >> https://corp.zozo.com/en/news/20201029-19365/ for the mobile phone. Not sure if that is available without talking to them directly to negotiate with them on their tech - but they have improved it from the 1st failed suit they used to make. So that is as easy as bung it in the mail, slip on the onesee lycra and snap a few pictures from the couch. Works for purchase of goods on zozo town. https://zozo.jp/
You can try out their shoe fit tech here >> https://zozo.jp/zozomat/
And the glasses tech here >> https://zozo.jp/zozoglass/
These are all devices for measurement (shape) collection based on the privacy of home /sports gym use. So that is maybe the type of technology you are looking for if you want simple in the home (low cost) apparatus. Hope that helps you.
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@ottoline you are THE BEST! Thank you so much, I really appreciate it :)
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