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How can I tie a tight belt around a coat?

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  • ottoline

    Made with CLO3D/MD

     

    Software:

    stevenabbott.co.uk

    decorative knots application

    State-of-the-art in knots software

    The most awesome > knotplot.com > application ( Knots can be loaded from a database of more than 3,000 knots ) Manual

    Wow-wee

    Knotmaker  Use this reference to draw a knot and load it as a image to trace over in CLO3D with an internal line - as per my original demo on how to drop a knot. That will give you a consistent process for getting all type of knots simply into CLO3D. Basically one process that does it all.

    pretzangles.com A world of 3D origami.

    PRO-TIP [1*]

    In MD you can take any 3D knot model created by these softwares and create a single paired seam line in the mesh model as quads. Create a UV by unwrapping that 3D knot. (follow quads).  You can then import that 3D model as an object and use the trace UV to 2D pattern. You will know have a 2D pattern that makes a 3D knot inside that is completely editable cloth - and it will be assembled as the knot and ready to go. I have used this to create incredibly complex woven's inside MD and CLO3D. How I made a library of over 300 crazy cloth knot items. And in Modo and BL beta you can automate that workflow. So that is my tip on an insane level of woven cloth complexity you can get with no thinking effort.

     

    Reference animated knots:

    knots3d.com

    play.google.com/store/apps/knots3d

    _ _ _

    Animatedknots.com

    Necktie knots

    Animatednapkins.com

     

    Weird facts:

    We all live in a knot

    Knot biscuits

    knots-and-braids-2019-conference-in-norway

     

    Download a knot:

    knotplot.com/sepicts/

     

     

    See import of 2D pattern via 3D model trace UV in MD8. As in PRO TIP method [1*]

     

    Load in your basic knots already assembled, as 2D patterns.

    Apply thickness > decide if you want some patterns split or as loops. Add thickness and edge curvature > then simulate > export to CLO3D.

    So pretty easy to build a library of knotted patterns - I have basically all the knots as per the 200 or so in the standard reference 3D library and then about 30 fashion knots for ties. Then a whole lot of macramé style stuff I use in fashion and interior.

    No limit really.

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  • ottoline

    The mesh will pass through the main garment more easily if the mesh particle distance is large. So to provide a far better surface in CLO3D you can at that stage do a few things to raise performance in collision to aid tying knots to make it a simpler process:

     

    1) Reduce the main garments and belts particle distance so there are more vertices in the belt to coat cloth collision. eg: Reduce from 20mm to 5mm.

    2) Increase the thickness temporarily of the belt, and place a full radius curvature on the belt pattern and set to 100%. This will create important vertex increase on the patterns edge (making it less likely to pull through) and make the collision calculation much better so that it does not easily break through the main cloth. Also set the physical simulation to CPU computation verse GPU computation. 

    3) Ensure the belt has sufficient length at the knot so it is not strained too much (switch off gravity if needed) , using a high friction setting on the belt fabric physical preset. Once the belt is loosely arranged around the coat, stop the simulation > then change the belts horizontal pattern scale down from 100% to 80% > 70% > XX%  using the patterns warp/weft setting in the patterns property editor. Switch simulation back on and adjust this scalar using the figured values in the property editor and the belt will shrink the coat nicely. This is one of the easiest methods to tighten a belt in a controlled tweaked fashion (shortening the pattern in one direction).

    4) Change the physical simulation from standard to best or even customize this so the simulation preset has a reduced step distance so there are more collisions per compute.

    5) At the waist on the coat patterns draw two internal lines at the belt position (and width) and assign them as elasticated to shrink the coat (as if it had a belt on) and hold the coat in position  whilst you place your belt. Switch off internal line folds and elastic after you have the belt in place. You can also line tack (thread distance) these internal coat lines to the avatar during animation to keep everything in a controlled position later if you animate the garment.

    See image below how to quickly tie any knot no matter the complexity:

    It works by releasing the sewing line to a thin strip pattern with thickness applied and 100% edge curvature. It will then fall under gravity into the final knot. And it will generate a clean well tied knot. If you change the over under sequence you can tie any type of knot. I have seen over 30 different knot jigs that do this for all types of complicated results - brilliantly simple! Then join that knotted section into your pattern build.

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  • ottoline

    It's CLO3D that is amazing. I'm just peddling the cycle wheels on the scenic route of design. Make what ever you want with their software. Process attached to experience.

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  • pabloquintana

    Hi mimisiri.

    This is a somewhat complicated task. My suggestion for you is that you should not try to create the knot and at the same time try to use the waistband to pull in the coat.

     

    1. Cinch

    Try to cinch the waist with a simple band that is positioned using the arrangement points. First make the band to be slightly longer that the original circumference of the coat at the waist level. This way when you simulate the band will not fall to the floor and will stay around the waist.

    Then, when the band is in place and it is sewn on its extreme edges, you can start by making it 0.2 to 0.5 cm smaller and simulate again. This way the band will start squeezing the coat.It has to be slowly so the band will not go through the coat. You can also assign the band a Layer 1 so it is always on the outside.

    Once you have your waist cinched to the point you want you can start with the knot using another band.

    2. Knot

    For this you can check this video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWW6AVr0QOM

    Once you are done and your waistband with the knot is in place, you can delete the original band.

    My other suggestion is to keep your garment simple. Don't add trims like the buttons until the very end. This complicates your simulations while you are still modifying the basic shape of your piece.

    I hope this helps.

     

    P

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  • danielemanassero

    Hi ottoline,

    can you point me to a tutorial that shows how do that?

    I tried and I ended up to obtaing the knot, but I would have a look how an expert do this.

    Thanks.

    Daniele 

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  • mimisiri

    Hi Pablo and Ottoline, thank you so much for your help! I really appreciate it. Will try out your methods and let you know how it goes.

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  • mimisiri

    Hi ottoline,

    Your quick method of tying a knot looks really interesting, but I am still a bit confused how this works. Are the lines for the knot internal lines? How do I release it into a knot?

     

    Many thanks,

    Mimi

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  • ottoline

    The knot design is mapped out using an internal line on any garment - that is just a piece of rectangular cloth for example that can be easily positioned or the internal line copied and placed onto another item. It has a thin strip of cloth sewn to that internal line(s) and then the sewing is released.

     

    See sewing (above) Freeze the rear garment so the chord pulls in nicely. Make the (chord) strip of cloth pattern 5mm particle distance (layer1) , make the chord pattern 5mm additional rendering thickness in patterns property editor / and add'l thickness collision 6mm.  In the 3D window switch to thick texture view. Also make sure the chord pattern has 100% curved side geometry - that is important as it does 2 things - makes it possible to make round chords for export and also raises the vertex count at the edges so knots surfaces don't fall through.

    Pull chord over and under in the 3D window so where the chord crosses over  the chord is in the correct (over/under) order ready for when you release the sewing to knot up. (Save a state here so you can return to that point in the workflow) Use your finger to trace the knot and chord flow if you have trouble seeing how a knot order flows.

    Select the knot sewing line using the edit sewing tool (B) in the 2D window > right click mouse and release that sewing > the knot will now form.

    Thickness view of chord (above) where the (chord) pattern has generous collision distance of 6mm. 

    Thin view of chord pattern (above)

     

    You can make any typical knot pattern using this approach, it's just down to the knot order. 

     

     

     

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  • mimisiri

    Hi ottoline,

     

    Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this and share it with us! I will definitely try it out. 

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  • ottoline

    You can also make complex tie knots as well , only use a tube instead of a rectangular piece of cloth, and sew a wider strip of cloth to the inner line. Save the jigs and re-use in projects. I have loads of these type of trim jigs in my library. 

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  • vadsura

    Tie a knot separately, then sew an additional belt. Save a good knot in the library.

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  • vadsura

    After sewing and simulating the knot and belt, you can do merge everything in a single belt.

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  • mimisiri

    @ottoline and @vad thank you so much for this!

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  • ottoline

    Mimisiri - you can also fix a knot into a position so you can tug it around without it collapsing - I forgot to mention ... if you solidify the knot pattern it will stay in position as you pull the object around in the assembly.

     

    See > Solidify > https://support.clo3d.com/hc/en-us/articles/115012381408-Solidify

     

    You can also bind any 3D knotted model (flat plane) to any draped or mesh CLO3D cloth surface. This just uses weight map transfer. Which can mean you can create intricate woven's like lace and macramé   with ease.

    You can create parametric knots and then quickly bind them to the CLO3D pattern and then re-import as trim. I do this all the time for complex detailing in garments.

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • mimisiri

    Ottoline - Thank you so much for the detailed explanation, this is extremely helpful! Do you use another software to make the knotted texture/surface?

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  • mimisiri

    Ottoline - this is incredibly amazing, thank you so much! I had no idea about this at all - thanks so much for sharing, I really appreciate it!

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  • mimisiri

    ottoline - I've created a knot following your advice, however there is no UV trace in Clo3D, so I had to draw the loops using the pattern tool and arrange them into position. After finishing that, I was wondering how I can bind the 3D knotted model to the cloth surface that you referred to? Also, is there a way to create a UV in Clo, or is MD the only way? I cannot seem to find the UV trace to 2D pattern feature. Maybe it is in a different version of Clo?

    Thanks again!

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  • ottoline

    mimisiri - Yes I forget as I tend to sit in MD more than CLO3D these days, as most of the stuff I have coming in is VR/fashion based.

    I will come up with a solution into CLO3D that should work for you - it should be possible to avoid creating (drafting) the knot patterns manually as some knots get complex so it needs to remain a fast workflow where you import the model, even as garment from an object mesh would be one route forward.

    Binding knots to simulated cloth is perhaps another alternative - but that uses an external 3D modelling app like modo/max/ or even free Blender can do this. Maybe try the latest release of blender 2.8 looks better than studio Max these days...  by using some of their free addons, where you take any mesh model and bind that to any animated export you have simulated in CLO3D as simple cloth. Most of my animations go direct to production for marketing and those budgets are large - typically high 5 to 6 figures for the digital effects so it's usually the domain space of a workstation pipeline with nuke node graphs driving all the inputs. Way outside the remit of keeping it simple. So I will do a little bit of elbow work on an alternative for you.

    The only barrier I have these days is - finding time.

     

    I will post some new tips.

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  • mimisiri

    ottoline - Blender seems like an option that I'd like to play around with CLO3D as well. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this, and I look forward to your tips! Any bit of advice is greatly appreciated as I am a complete newbie to this.

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  • ottoline

    mimisiri

    I found a really easy way to create the woven patterns from the output from the weaving/knot app into CLO3D avoiding tracing the UV that MD 8 does. And it also assembles it onto the model in a single step.

     

     

    Export the object mesh from the knot creation app as a quad mesh (open in Blender and delete surfaces you don't want) so you end up with an object like I show above >  then import into CLO3D as an Avatar > then in the 3D window create a 3D pattern line on the knot model avatar surface to break each loop once only > then use the 'flatten' tool on each knot loop > it will then trace that loop perfectly and also leave it mapped to the incoming knot model surface. Now you have a cloth pattern for each knot loop, that is sewn into place and is also arranged exactly as above. Strengthen the cloth patterns > switch off gravity > and then thicken the patterns collision offset and render thickness to suit like I show above. That will create any complex knot inside CLO3D and will also assemble it perfectly ready to simulate. Basically you can then do as complex objects as you want in cloth avoiding the MD trace UV . In fact it actually does a better job than the MD trace feature as it's more precise.

    I will maybe do a tutorial on the process for CLO3D - it's actually really simple to do. About 5 minutes from start to finish ready to simulate.

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  • mimisiri

    ottoline - thank you so much for explaining everything in such detail, I will give this a try!

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  • aann

    Ottoline and Vad, I've just read your knot instructions. Really helpful and inspiring- Thanks. 

    Ottoline, I'm very interested in the technique of 'binding' a knit/macrame' creation to a flat panel to be able to drape it. Would you be able to explain how you do the 'binding' in order to use the weight map transfer that you mentioned? 

    Thanks,

    Annika

     

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